The Lounge http://www.storywonk.com/forum/categories/the-lounge/feed.rss Fri, 18 May 12 00:02:55 -0600 The Lounge en-CA What exactly is turning people off from my screenplay? http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/174/what-exactly-is-turning-people-off-from-my-screenplays Thu, 17 May 2012 17:41:48 -0600 Dorkstranger 174@/forum/discussions
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YAX5FmAvIQ5244zfM-pRvGRMvGwtvfuBL0Cqadv_Cig/edit

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Introductions! http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/4/introductions Sat, 03 Sep 2011 14:32:23 -0600 Alastair 4@/forum/discussions
So, I'm Alastair, and I'm a wonk.  I'm a writer of genre fiction, a coder and designer, a lover of coffee, and a Good Eats addict.  My favourite authors are Douglas Coupland, Peter F Hamilton, Jennifer Crusie and, of course, my wife Lani. :)

That's me; who are you?
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Requests for Podcasts? http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/153/requests-for-podcastss Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:13:22 -0600 PEART 153@/forum/discussions ]]> Writing blogs? (: http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/69/writing-blogss- Sat, 05 Nov 2011 16:08:01 -0600 Nils 69@/forum/discussions I've been looking for good writing blogs that are just oozing with wonky enthusiasm and joy, and after a long search, I sat myself down and said, Self, you listen to this wonky podcast oozing with enthusiasm and joy, so why not ask them and their awesome listeners?

Do any of you write blogs, and what are your favourite ones to read?

PS: Lani, I wrote some Discovery voice exercises, and I'd like you to take a look at them; they're from Win, my protagonist's best friend. She's transsexual and doesn't want him to know. (Aaron is transgender and doesn't want to undergo surgery, and he won't be able to take hormones until after puberty.)
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I'm a great writer http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/154/im-a-great-writer Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:29:02 -0600 MJBrudenell 154@/forum/discussions
Come by and state your own greatness. Thanks Lani!!]]>
Drinking to write. http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/160/drinking-to-write. Wed, 18 Apr 2012 21:16:39 -0600 Dorkstranger 160@/forum/discussions
For those of you who feel it's easier to lay down words after a few drinks, what's your poison and how much do you need to really get the ink flowing?]]>
Pratchett http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/98/pratchett Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:53:01 -0700 Corky 98@/forum/discussions
Looking to read something from Terry Pratchett since I've heard so much about him. Anyone have any recommendations? Thanks.

-Corky

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Harry Potter's prologue http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/166/harry-potters-prologue Mon, 23 Apr 2012 22:12:49 -0600 Dorkstranger 166@/forum/discussions
Tried it out tonight with the audiobook. It now begins with the line,
"The escape of the Brazilian boa constrictor earned Harry his longest-ever punishment."

I'd say that's a pretty good hook. Thoughts?]]>
Script Frenzy? http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/165/script-frenzys Sat, 21 Apr 2012 23:05:41 -0600 Dorkstranger 165@/forum/discussions I started last night. I know - way way way late. But I figure better now than never.

So far I'm 16 pages in.]]>
Most authorfriendly bookstores? http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/164/most-authorfriendly-bookstoress Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:36:10 -0600 Dorkstranger 164@/forum/discussions
Do ebooks generate a higher royalty payoff than inkandpaper?

I've heard horrible things about the Amazon bookselling practices but love the convenience of being able to find the books I want without driving around my city going from store to store. ]]>
A Discovery Mishap... http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/156/a-discovery-mishap... Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:05:59 -0600 kmr 156@/forum/discussions
I am not exactly sure where, but I read or heard about the idea of writing scenes between characters interacting as an exercise in finding their voice. These scenes are not meant to be part of your story, just a way of getting to know your characters better. The idea fascinated me and I tried it. It worked. After a few scenes with different characters in mundane settings and situations I have gained a better idea of my protagonist’s thoughts and feelings, and more intriguing and delightful a few quarks became apparent.

Unfortunately there is a slight problem. While doing these “throw away” scenes an idea for a scene to be included in my story developed. Against rational thought I wrote this scene instead of just keeping the kernel of the idea for later use. I love this scene. It shows so much about the core of two of my characters, the protagonist being one. It reveals who they are in a way that was shocking even to me, and seeing as how I created them that seems rather strange yet exciting. Other than this scene I have written only 3 pages of this book. They do not even know the other person exists at this point. Now I have this wonderful scene that I desperately want in my book and instead of doing what I normally do, seeing where the story takes me, I am thinking of ways to bend and shape the story to reach this one singular point. I know I should not be doing that but I can’t help but dwell upon it.

I don’t do outlines more than having a general idea of how the story flows. I am a "pantser" at heart; I let my characters do what they will for the most part. The idea of working my story to arrive at this event seems unnatural. I don’t want to kill my darling and I fear the need to do so.

Perhaps I am panicking unnecessarily. As I said I am only 3 pages in and the story could develop in a natural way that would support and benefit from this scene. It is just the idea of forcing the flow of my book around one scene that bothers me, intentional or not.

Is this a way that any of you write? Do you have scenes you know you want in your story and write them out well before you get to that point in your book? How does this affect your story? Do you work them into your story no matter what or do you just hope you can use it? Have you ever had to change the way your story was going because of a situation like this?

I apologize for the long post and thank you for taking the time to read my paranoid ramblings. Maybe I am just coming up with a new way to avoid doing the work so that my brain won’t catch on for some time.


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2 links that helped me...maybe they can help you too! http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/155/2-links-that-helped-me...maybe-they-can-help-you-too- Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:32:56 -0600 PEART 155@/forum/discussions
First from Eugene Cross:

"As the amazing Richard Bausch puts it, doubt is an indicator that you have an ear for the way the work should sound and that you realize it's not yet there. Another teacher explained it to me this way. A show like American Idol inevitably begins with a smattering of tone-deaf singers who screech and shout their way through a sampling of Mariah Carey and Celine Dion. An irritated Simon Cowell then asks, "How do you think you did?" Many of these crooners smile and mouth their approval, assured they've just delivered a moving rendition. "Better than Mariah," they might say to the judges' collective shock. But here's the thing, the judges shouldn't be shocked. That confidence, that complete lack of doubt, shows a lack of talent. Those singers are so confident because they don't have a musical ear. They can't tell that they're tone-deaf, that they don't have the talent for song (or else they're just looking for their fifteen minutes.) They are devoid of doubt and consumed by confidence because they can't hear how the song should be or can be sung. And so when we as writers doubt our own work, it's because we realize that it is not yet where we want it to be. And so we keep trying, keep at it, over and over and over again. We collect our rejection slips. We revise the same sentence dozens of times. We read our work aloud and torture our thesauruses and slam our heads against the wall, until we get it right. Because we know we can. Because we know it can be better. I can't thank Bausch enough for teaching me this, for taking something that keeps so many of us away from the page and explaining it for what it is, a positive sign that the work we have chosen as our life's calling is actually the work we were meant to do."

http://www.glimmertrain.com/b62cross.html

Second from Marc Davies:

"The journeyman writer is arguably in a more difficult position. As the writer matures, he starts to see the flaws in his own style. He knows that he is getting better at his craft, but he hasn’t achieved enough success to be sure that other people like his work. He doesn’t have the brash arrogance of the beginner, but neither does he have the hard won confidence of the master. Doubt starts to creep in, and the only things he can see in his work are mistakes."

http://fantasy-faction.com/2012/why-arent-you-writing]]>
Beta Readers http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/152/beta-readers- Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:10:15 -0600 PEART 152@/forum/discussions --------------
Reader A: A reader who will receive 25 page submissions to them, and will provide feedback.

Reader B: A reader who will receive the entire manuscript once it had undergone a full round of editing. They will then receive a deadline, at which time I will ask them if they completed reading it. If so, I’ll ask for general thoughts and notes. If not, I’ll ask them to explain how far they went, and whether the reason they did not finish was due to the text or just life.
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To my surprise, many people opted for group A. Of the original 12 or so, about 5 remain. People's lives got busy, so they had to drop out. The 5 that remain each focus on different things, making their combined feedback incredible. My issue is, they've started to all slow down. Initially most people took about 2 weeks to read 2 chapters. Then they all liked it, so chapter 3&4 as well as 5&6 were consumed and commented within a few days. Unfortunately, by the time they were done, I hadn't completed my own editing of 7&8 so they had some time off. When I finally had them ready, I sent it to them, but no one has responded at all. It's been 2 weeks. I plan to kind of nudge them, but I guess what I am wondering is. Why did they stop (which I will ask) and what is the average time beta readers (perhaps who are not your friends) take when reviewing a work in progress?
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Waiting http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/151/waiting Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:08:12 -0600 PEART 151@/forum/discussions
I'm editing my manuscript, and I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing, but lately it is starting to take a lot out of me. Whenever I hit a wall/problem that requires some rewriting, I start to freak out. Not that I won't be able to fix it, but that it will take more time to do it. I keep thinking I am going to run out of time, that someone is going to pitch something similar to the agents I want, and I'll be left out in the cold.

I realize that this has always been true, I just simply ignored it during the main writing phase, but now that I’m close…I worry about this so much more. It takes so much mental energy to constantly maintain the self-control I need to prevent myself from querying agents right now. After all, my book is technically done. But it’s not ready. It’s like I’ve assembled a cake, baked it for 1\3rd of the time it needs, and now I want to pull it out and serve it. Sure I’ve probably cooked enough so that the raw eggs and ingredients won’t kill you, but it won’t be nearly as good as if I had taken the time to let it cook all the way through.

Anyone else feel this way?
Advice?
Sympathy?
Etc?
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tips from Steinbeck http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/150/tips-from-steinbeck Tue, 13 Mar 2012 02:27:21 -0600 caiknbake 150@/forum/discussions
http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/03/12/john-steinbeck-six-tips-on-writing/]]>
Why Sci-Fi? http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/148/why-sci-fis Fri, 02 Mar 2012 05:31:10 -0700 kmr 148@/forum/discussions
If not for a spaceship, an alien, a laser gun, a different planet, time travel or some other gadget beyond our own technological advances most stories would be an action-adventure, comedy, thriller, romance, horror or mystery. So what makes sci-fi, sci-fi and not something else? If I am missing something, some rule or guideline, please let me know but it seems like the phrase referring to pornography... I know it when I see it.

Thank you for your time.

kip
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Progress Report http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/136/progress-report Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:45:38 -0700 Jenni 136@/forum/discussions
Happy Writing/Storytelling!]]>
Blog Post http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/116/blog-post Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:01:14 -0700 BA_Matthews 116@/forum/discussions
http://bit.ly/w8rIk2


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Beta Readers vs. Critique Groups http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/105/beta-readers-vs.-critique-groups Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:18:28 -0700 Jenni 105@/forum/discussions   I was hoping for some advice on beta readers and/or critique groups.  I am getting close to the point where I think I'll need to start getting other pairs of eyes on my stories and I'm trying to figure out what the most helpful or types of next steps there might be.  My greatest concern is probably still the big picture structure and motivation stuff, but I'm not sure what the factors in considering the next step are.
  If you've used beta readers or critique groups before, and wouldn't mind answering some questions, I'd love to have some help.  Do you have beta readers or a critique group?  Have you had one or the other in the past?  What do you think the benefits of each (or which ever you have or have used in the past) are?  What would you recommend keeping an eye out for?  Thanks in advance!
~Jenni
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Thought you might find this funny... http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/97/thought-you-might-find-this-funny... Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:36:08 -0700 BA_Matthews 97@/forum/discussions
The hilarious thing is that he doesn't listen to podcasts but he recognizes yours just based on the amount of times I will look at him and say, "Oh, you have to listen to this podcast. They discussing ______ this time..."

So, yeah. Thought you might get a laugh out of it.
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The Luke Skywalker Argument http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/95/the-luke-skywalker-argument Sat, 03 Dec 2011 08:02:41 -0700 Alastair 95@/forum/discussions Those of you who listened in to episode 239: Luke Skywalker heard Lani read an excerpt from Danielle's awesome email, in which she laid out her objections to our casual -- nay, cavalier -- dismissal of the farm boy hero. I wanted to share the full text of her email, and she kindly gave her permission, so here it is!

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My preference for Luke probably starts with my general taste in characters, especially those of the male persuasion.  I like dorky, awkward guys, which suits Luke's character profile.  I also like male characters who are genuinely Good and kind, ones who believe that the universe is a light-filled place and that there are genuinely kind people in it, and that the pursuit Goodness and Light is worthwhile.  I've never cared for "bad boy" characters.  I feel that much of their appeal is superficial; because they are 'bad' (but not Bad) they can get away with being snarky and jerky, whereas a Good character would NEVER do such things (an assertion with which I disagree).  I'm just not into this.  I prefer characters that I can admire, who possess traits that I wish to emulate.  I shouldn't have to squint to see past the bad stuff and find the teeny tiny splotch of genuine goodness in a character, unless that's the point of the story.   I respect Luke's genuine belief in, and pursuit of, Light, and I appreciate that it's a major component of his personality rather than a tacked on "he saves puppies so he must be a good guy" thing. 

A second argument against Han (not that he's a bad character) is that I find his personality a bit too similar to mine to really appreciate. What I mean is that, like Han, I tend to use humor and sarcasm to keep a comfortable distance from people.  I don't like this aspect of myself, so seeing it in a character is a little difficult.  The fact that this humor is mostly directed at the audience also makes it difficult to connect with Han; we don't see him as a vulnerable character because we're too busy smirking at his one-liners.  Luke, while dorky and bland for the duration of the first two films, has the benefit of being somewhat weak and vulnerable.  He is genuinely affected by the events occurring throughout the stories and he reacts accordingly, showing fear and anger and despair.  By being vulnerable and expressing these feelings he is given the opportunity to overcome them and become a better, stronger person.  This segues nicely to my next argument, which is...

Character development.  When we first meet Luke he is a whiny, shitty teenager full of youthful self-centeredness and aspirations to becoming a Jedi, with absolutely no understanding of what that lifestyle means or the effort needed to reach that state of existence.  Throughout the trilogy (especially in Return of the Jedi) he undergoes the mental and emotional maturation necessary to perceive the world as a sliding scale of grayness instead of simply Dark and Light.  What makes this even more meaningful for me is that he does so after 
1)  the brutal murder of the only parental figures he'd known
2)  witnessing the death of the crazy old man who'd sucked him into this mess
3)  almost freezing to death on Hoth then crashing on some gross swamp planet and being stuck with a grumpy little troll man
4)  failing to save one of his only friends (Han), losing his hand in a lightsaber battle with Vader and THEN finding out that, oh hey by the way, Vader's his father; and
5)  the girl he's been lusting after is actually his twin sister.
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I am writing this blindfolded. http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/70/i-am-writing-this-blindfolded. Sat, 05 Nov 2011 17:06:36 -0600 Nils 70@/forum/discussions All I have to do is pretend I know exactly what it's like to be this dog. She doesn't know how or even that she's going to hit the floor, so she's just concentrating on her life. Since she's a dog, probably through her nose.

I never smelled this before! wow, it's sort of salty and wide and I bet it comes from far away. I think I can hear a  screech in the smell, as if from a bird. And there's all the hair on my back all going  around in differernt directions; the wind is pretty strong today. Carefull not to push over that edge. I wonder what's benath it? It's hard to tell. There's fog betweeen me and the ground, or maybe my eyes just aren't so sharp, or maybe there just isn't any ground. Whatever. I'm sorta more interested in food now. Oh hey, what's that`Movement! A raustle, feathers, claws, wings! Ha! I bet I can eat that!

Shit, it's bigger than it looked from afar. Also lauder suddenly with all the screeching. I better get out of here. I'm not keen to find out about that ground behind the fog right now, but Where was I oh right the fog and the ground. Yeah, that can wait. Right now I wanna not claws in my body and not screech in my ears and yes food in my teeth. I love it when the sinews stick between your fangs!

So I smell nothing warm or breathing here. I can I can tell that I can't eat stone cause it doesn't smell like dog food at all. Rabbits I tried once. Got away though.

I think this is concrete or steel between my claws, something shiny and hard and unsmelly anyways. It sorta just reflects light and claws and nose. Teeth too, probably.

AndSo I'm gonna try the big flappy thing, sorta like the crow that flapped at my nose the other night. Only really much bigger. Can't hurt to try though. What's it gonna do? Fly away`Then I can try the concrete.

Oh, apparently lash at me with the claws again. Weird. Well, I can dodge. My legs are pretty good at it. Like when the thing that smells like what the others call Jake or Joke or something, anyway if it throws a stick at it my legs and teeth always now how to catch it. Or how to dodge and pull away when joke tries to take the stick back. or was it jake? can be pretty selfish about sticks, anyway.

Maybe I'll find out what's behind the fog after all! Aren't I just the luckiest to live in a world were I can do anything?

Like the other day, I yowled at joke until she gave me food. That was fun!

Oh, there's the gound! Hello ground! It's probably going to be all bouncy and soft, like when I fall into the grass because my legs stumble over the stick.




You can't know this, but I really did go to the washing lines where all my ties are and picked the green onee with the no pattern on it apart from stripes in different texture. It's wider that all the other pretty manly ties, and I find that if I tie it around my eyes and close my lids, light will not get in anymore.

Now my fingers can remember where all the keys are without my eyes trying to tell them.
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Happy fun! Dogs and potatoe spells and dung beetles! http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/68/happy-fun-dogs-and-potatoe-spells-and-dung-beetles Sat, 05 Nov 2011 15:30:01 -0600 Nils 68@/forum/discussions
A few days ago, I've found my happiness. I know that I can always be happy because life will always feed me and I will always feed life. I can trust the dung beetles to turn life into cherries, and I can trust the Grim Reaper to lead me to my life after death. Even Hollywood knows that if Hell flows over, the dead will return to this earth.

If I were a drop of water, I'd be so happy about riding the current and experiencing all the rush and movement around me that I wouldn't worry about leaving the stream or arriving in the sea. Maybe I like being in the clouds best, but I can leave them knowing that I always return.

I tried to tell my sister all of this, but she didn't want to hear it. I couldn't see why, and she told me I was basically speaking Chinese to her. (I think her knowledge is limited to a few half-remembered phrases that she doesn't know how to translate.)

We kept interrupting each other until I finally agreed to shut up.

It was easy. She just needed me to shut up long enough for her to form her own thoughts, long enough for her to realise that I was having fun and not trying to tell her how to be happy. I'd love her to be happy, but I only know how to be happy in my own way. She thought I meant that I had found her happiness for her and was putting it in a box, wrapping pumpkin patterned paper and tying a shiny purple bow around it. Nice, now it's harder for her to find; she knew where it was before I hid it so prettily.

She can only enjoy that if she knows that I'm playing, that I'm going to open the box again as soon as she starts crying, that I'm not trying to teach her a lesson about how she has to deserve happiness.

I have never been afraid of dogs because I grew up with them and could always tell when they were playing, that is inviting me to share joy, or fighting, that is telling me to get away before they have to bite me. I never concieved that a dog might sneak up on me to eat me. They've got dog food for that, right? It's easier to catch. So if they do sneak up on me, I assume their trying to play and not eat. Then I can share or leave.

This means that I will happily read and write any book that promises happy fun. Happiness alone makes me worry that the author is trying to change me to conform to their happiness, and fun alone makes me worry that they are trying to change themselves to conform to mine. I have found Neither is a reliable basis for play. Happiness is not worrying and Fun is worrying when you know you don't have to. To great tastes that go great together! Almost like cherries and clear river water.

I now see homophones as an invitation to play. I don't worry about making my sentences distinguish between to, two and too any more. I try to find sentences where thy can mean three things at once! You're fun. Your fun. Yay!

The less I control how you read my language, the more fun it can be for you to try to figure out how I can mean thy and they at the same time, or peace and piece and peas and pees. I don't know any better than you.

That's why I enjoy Hemingway so much. He's making it easy for me. That's why I like Poe so much. He's making it hard for me!

The other day, Jàchym opened my door and pointed at me, yelling potato! I yelled back, carrot! He rolled his eyes, and I saw the stick like a wand in his pointing hand, knew that he'd said Protego, and yelled Expecto Patronum! But since Dementors don't use wands, he dared me to be cleverer. I've never had more fun misunderstanding.

I just have fun with my happiness. I'll die, but I'm not playing to win. I'm playing for fun. Why would I sacrifice that just to keep playing? I'd miss my own points.

I can have as much fun right now not knowing if a dog will eat me or a car run over me, and I can lie in my bed in seventy years, surrounded by my loved ones, knowing that soon I will be safe from dogs and cars. Neither life nor death can scare me now. I dare you to try! It's my way of inviting you to play. I'm not committed to one game; I'm sure we can find games to play together or seperately.

If you find my white remains in the dog hut, know that I died playing and that I don't want your mourning to distract you from yours.

Compost is composing.

At the end of my life, I invite the dung beetles to play me into cherries. I've seen them at it, I trust them to win.
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Let's have a NaNoWriMo-group! http://www.storywonk.com/forum/discussion/16/lets-have-a-nanowrimo-group Sat, 17 Sep 2011 19:28:40 -0600 Nils 16@/forum/discussions
Last year, I nanoed pretty much by myself. I don't really have any writer friends in real life, and the NaNo-forums were so huge that I didn't know where to start or where to find people I might connect with. But we're all Storywonks, so we most likely have a similar outlook on and enthusiasm for writing, so that's something that connects us, right? :)
What do you think? Anyone interested?
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